Dave, I don't think you are going to ingratiate yourself very well with us northern golfers making comments like that.

However, I do understand your frustration with those who do not replace or fill divots. The lower the quality of the course, the more prevalent it seems to be. In my experience, it is not generally a habit of better, more knowledgeable golfers. (And CERTAINLY not Titleist loyalists!) Low handicap hackers, maybe. And you can find hackers in every single corner of the country.

I was a member at a higher end public course with everyday rates in the $75-80 range. The rates dropped in the afternoon to around $50. Then they decided late one summer to open the course up to everyone after 5pm with a $21 rate, including a cart to generate some extra cash for the greedy owners. Crazy. Shot themselves in the foot in my opinion. The majority of idiots who showed up at that price typically did not make etiquette a part of their game. The conditions of the course went downhill within a few weeks of the new rate. The members were in an uproar. I saw carts parked on the green fringe, flags left laying on the green, bunkers which looked like wrestling matches had taken place and divots big enough to bury a body. So, I hear your frustration. You are just sick of putting up with snowbirds in general this time of year and are taking it out on northerner golfers. I know how Floridians (and other warm state, southern residents) feel come February. They want their roads back. And everything else.

I was just in FL. Played a couple rounds. Filled or replaced every divot I made. I did have to drive on your roads though. Sorry.

I would bet the relationship between handicap and caring for the course would indicate that better players generally take better care of the courses on which they play. Certainly there are many exceptions to the rule. In fact, I can think of a couple good players I know who would be in that group.

In any case, the snowbirds will be gone soon. Hang in there.

Dave,
I also just came back from an extended stay in FL. I played four rounds, the first of which was with three other gents from up north. Two of the gents were terrible about filling in divots and repairing ball marks, but the gent I rode with and myself did our due diligence in filling in the divots and repairing ball marks. Now the three other rounds I played were all with FL residents and none of them went out of their way to fill in the divots or repair ball marks. So you might want to reconsider before laying all the blame on northern golfers.

Lack of etiquette is becoming a very big issue in golf in general. People all over aren't fixing ball marks, don't fill-in divots, don't rake bunkers.....and the list goes on.

Hi Barry & Doug,

I completely concur with your assessment -- it is a problem everywhere and is in no way solely from "northern" golfers whomever that may be.

I suspect that there are several factors contributing to this situation - some of it may be as a result of:

- younger/newer golfers not understanding the importance of course etiquette (such as divots, ball marks, etc.);
- overseas golfers that do not have an established course etiquette similar to that found in North America (many courses in Asia have golf course staff perform the task of filling divots, etc.);

I personally prefer to use the sand-seed mixture to fill my divots, though many courses do not have this capability -- I particularly prefer this when my divot "explodes" and there is nothing left to replace.

In addition, I know personally many older fellas who simply do not repair ball marks or divots, etc. We used to have a sign at our Pro Shop when people sign in "If you can bend down to put a tee in the ground, you can bend down and repair your divots and ball marks".

An after round discussion with one of the groups of guys that we play with centered on the desire to speed up play -- with some saying, "hey, you want me to play the round within 4 hours and 15 minutes (4 hours or whatever the case may be), then I can't also start fixing everything on the course because it takes too long!".

I believe that every golfer should do their bit to pick up after themselves on the tee box, repair their divots, and repair at least one ball mark plus another. Many times, we are waiting on tee boxes (Par 3's mostly), where we can use divot mix to repair the tee box.

It is frustrating. This is probably #2 on my list, with #1 being slow play.

Golf today is different or has changed a lot. My brother and I have only started golf in '92 (...and still learning) and we see a lot of things done differently. But we were lucky to have our step dad to have guided us when we picked up the game- he's been in the golf business all his life. While learning, like many who starts, we were mostly concerned about long balls for any club and thinking... what if we can hit a PW 170 yards or some ridiculous yardage- thinking even more out of our heads... Why, we'd be great golfers if we could! (not). Then there were rules that we were concerned about and we were both afraid...lazy of learning it more than anything, really (at one of our discussions). Well, my dad heard us and he said this words many times as we went through learning golf: "Etiquette on the course is the only priority in learning that you two should be concerned about for now. YOU WILL LEARN IT AND YOU WILL LIKE IT- YOU WILL DO IT." Needless to say it stuck with us (even though we still thought of a 300 yard drive that we can't do- well, not straight...300 yard somewhere.), ....we do the best we can with etiquettes, but we're not perfect.

Nowadays, I see very few efforts on golf courses who would enforce the etiquettes- but mostly courses with public access and even some high end courses where folks feel the greens fee they've paid should be enough to pay for someone at the course to refill the divots they make through the course, fix ball marks on greens...etc. This attitude is not good. In golf, there are rules and etiquettes and they are the same in any parts of the world. I am a believer that if you take two golfers who speaks only their languages, but different from each other, would understand each other and can have a great time through golf because it is played first with etiquette and rules.

...btw, I love a starter who is not afraid to mention: Please fill your divots and fix your ball marks on the greens as an effort to teach or spread the good words. :-)

Peace, Good brews/munch, and Golf.

I usually prefer to walk when I can. Why? I don't know. I've done it all my life since junior golf. When I walk and carry my Titleist bag, I don't have access to sand/dirt/seed mix to fill a divot. And, I heard long ago, before golf carts had sand boxes and scoops, that it was better to NOT replace your divot, because the grass would grow back better. I remember back in the 80's walking down the fairway and you would see all of these brown patches of grass that were divots that had been replaced, but didn't have enough roots to catch and grow again. So the grass never grew back underneath, or took a lot longer.

As for ball marks on greens, it is an epidemic! I always look for my mark, and routinely end up repairing at least 2-3 more on each and every green. I agree that it is probably due to younger/newer players that just weren't taught how to repair them. You used to go through the golf shop to buy all of your stuff: clubs, ball, tees, etc, and would always see signs about repairing ball marks. Now, people go the local sporting goods store, or buy all of their stuff online, so they just go into the shop to pay their greens fees for the tee time that they booked online and head out onto the course. Not sure what the answer is, but I'm sure it is going to get worse as time goes on.

Hey now!!! Be nice to the Northeast folks, it's not all of us... :) I think this is a national problem. I see it all summer long. What makes me angry the most is no one fixing the ball marks on the greens. Great you hit the green, now fix the mark you made! I'm constantly taking the time to fix the marks and not enough time reading my putts. It is sad to see this.

Let me explain my dilemma , in the summer the population in my"Village" is approx. 25,000 and by Jan. it grows to 150,000 . Thats 5 times the amount of people in the area. Picture your home town exploding this way, I am sure you wouldn't be happy either. This is a "Vacation/resort to them and the attitude is everyone that lives here should serve them (not an exaggeration,just talk to them you'll see). Everything is too crowded and yes they are too good to do anything that would help out. With that said this is not true to all snow birds but a high percentage of them. The grounds crews work hard all spring and summer to get the courses back in shape just to have it destroyed again in the winter. Very frustrating to all that live here. Sorry for the rant.

I am a member of a private club and in the winter and early spring a lot of members walk to take advantage of the cool weather. Unfortunately a lot of divots are not filled in with the sand/seed mixture that are carried in the carts. There should be no excuse for not repairing divots on the green or raking bunkers, knocking sand out of your spikes before walking onto the green, leaving trash out on the fairways, etc. I faced the same situation that Dave is talking about when I played the muni's and that is why I joined a private club but the same issues are still present, just not as much. There is always going to be someone that has no clue of proper etiquette no matter where you play. The one advantage of a private club is that when you see golf etiquette being broken you can bring it to the attention of the greens committee and let them handle it and hopefully stop that individual from doing it again.

Dave,
I feel your pain, but I also think you need to remember that FL has been built on tourism. You live in a state with warm winter weather and people from cold weather climates flock to it from December through March and I don't think it will change anytime soon. As for the visitor's attitudes, I think you just have to chalk it up to bad manners.

Hello Dave N. I hear you loud and clear. I have worked for 20 years at a muni at the Jersey Shore. It is not just northern golfers. Southern golfers that vacation here have been known to forget to fix a thing or two. The problem is getting worse all of the time. It has nothing to do with north, south, old or young. It is just being darn lazy!
Play Well,
Steve S.

Steve S you might be right, when they all go home the numbers drop drastically. Maybe the more conscientious stay here during the summer? BFG.

I hear ya! I hit a great drive last night only to find it laying in a CRATER in the fairway! It had to be at least two feet long!
95 yd approach to a front pin and I chunked it and left it short. So much for my birdie!

I work 1-day a week as a Starter @ a semi-public golf course. We are instructed to make sure that we inform each group to repair ball marks and fill in divots. I try to go a step further and tell them that there are 2 bottles of sand on each cart, when you empty them you can get full bottles from the Player's Assistant on the course. I also offer free divot tools; hey they're cheap plastic ones but they're better then nothing.

Does it help? Somewhat, I agree with the majority of the comments the problem is universal. The lack of golf etiquette has always been an issue, and it's never going to go away.

This brings up another issue which is the proper way to use a divot tool. I see a lot of players who stick the divot tool in the side of the divot and pry it up. Then tamp the pried up piece of green down.They are breaking the roots when doing this. The proper way is to stick the divot tool down beside the divot and push inward with a slight twist then go to the other side of the divot and repeat, then tamp. This will allow the green to heal more quickly.

Thanks for the lesson on repairing divots. I have always been taught to fix your divot and two more.