Forgiveness...?

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By Thomas R

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  • 8 Replies
  1. Hey everyone,

         I've decided to get back into golf after hitting some of my cousins AP1's at the driving range.  I've only ever played with a set that was cut down so it too short and also pretty cheap. Anyway all that goes to say, I really liked the feel of those Ap1's, every shot felt like I hit the sweet spot and I forgot how much I love golf when I actually do hit it straight. After doing a little research I found out about forgiveness and those clubs with a high MOI are for game improvement.

    What I dont understand is how can it possibly be improving your game? Let me explain my thought process on this.

    If someone gets AP1's they have better control and then obviously a lower score. But what about when they decide to move up to the next level? When they get AP2's wont they be all over the place b/c they are used to the forgiveness of the AP1's?

    It kinda seems to me like the whole practicing the right way. If you practice bad habits in anything it will just make you worse in the long run.

    Would it be a better idea for me to get AP1s or just get AP2's and hit thousands of balls at the range until i get it going straight. (Which i will still do even if i go with the AP1's)

    Can anyone explain to me exactly what the whole forgiveness thing is about?

    O yea and I dont know my handicap (because Ive played like once every 6 months for the past 5 years), but I could probably break 80 consistently if I did hit it straight. From 100 yards in im fine, its just the long game that gets me.

    Thanks,

    T. Rones

  2. Lou G

    Lou G
    San Diego, CA

    Golf is about working smarter and not harder. I would do a side by side demo between the two. Hitting thousands of balls only amplifies swing faults. Also, when fatigue sets in, you get new swing faults.
  3. Don O

    Don O
    Madison, WI

    There's super game improvement, game improvement, and various forms of player's club, generally forged.  At one end are muscle backs that are forged.  To simplify the discussion, I have seen Tom Watson's irons on various shows, and the wear spot is smaller than a quarter.  That accuracy will not result in fat/thin shots.  Which is good, because poorly hit balls will really be poor shots with the top forged irons.  Super game improvements have wide soles to aid in hitting by minimizing fat shots, with lots of vibration dampening so thin/skulled shots won't sting as much.  AP1 is a cast game improvement - doesn't have the wide sole of super GIs but does have a wider sweet spot on longer irons to keep mishits on track.  AP2 as a forged iron bridges from game improvement and the other forged irons.  Try getting a good fitter to work with your game.  Depending on your accuracy, that person will suggest AP1, AP2, or CB.  Likely they will suggest the AP!, based on what your level of commitment will be.  A couple of rounds a month and an occasional trip to a range means that hitting the ball straight consistently with some distance control is a reasonable goal.  AP1 will work well.  Moving to a forged set works for players that get to the point of needing to work cuts and draws.  Some game improvement products work so well at straightening mishits that working a draw or cut can be more difficult.  Another swing characteristic is launch angle.  Some of this can be controlled by the shaft, but CB and MB forged irons generally have a lower launch angle.

    I agree with others that don't want to pigeon holed into a club based on generalities.  From your fitting, the fitter should be able to tell you what to expect with your current skill and you should decide to match your game that day or where you can see yourself.  I did flirt with a M53 forged iron.  I was hitting it ok, but my distance wasn't better than some older game improvements.  The AP1 gave me better launch and distance, I'm 62, and can't expect to get much better in 10 years.  Unless you can see a lot more time commitment, the AP1 will serve you well if they fit your swing today.

  4. Quintin H

    Quintin H
    Morehead, KY

    Thomas

    First, "game improvement" and "players club" are labels, these labels DON'T mean "you stink" and "you be good".

    The way you move to the next level is by moving to the next level of practice, the type of iron makes no difference.

    Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages for every attribute found in clubhead design.

    What I always thought was a great idea, was the progressive set, long irons had the highest degree of "game improvement" features with less in each shorter iron to PW having no "game improvement" features........now they are called mixed sets, where you take irons from different sets.

  5. I too am pondering over decisions like yours. I grew up playing golf and when i was about 10 money was tight so i never got new clubs to step up from my Moxie Clubs LOL. but anyway after 6 years of not playing i finally can fit my dads Pro Zoid irons and his Titleist Driver and Fairway. But the irons have basically no forgivness im trying to decide whether to buy a new set.. But on the other hand you have to think if you learn to play with clubs with little to no forgivness then it wont really matter. If you are relearning the sport and it doesn't epically cripple your game then does it really matter. In your case i would go with the AP2 (thats the next set up right) Cause if you can learn to hit them consistently then it wont matter.
  6. P Ford

    P Ford
    Memphis, TN

    once someone gets good enough with the ap1s to be able to hit them consistently well, then they can move to the ap2s, a much more workable club than the ap1. with the ap1s, you sacrifice workability for forgiveness, while with the ap2s you sacrifice forgiveness for workability. The ap1s improve your game so you can get to the ap2s which are more of a players iron.

  7. Mike M

    Mike M
    Hilo, HI

    I'm 74 and over the years have gone from blades--Staff, Hogan Apex--to Titleist DCI Black and last year to AP2s.  The DCI Blacks were a great improvement over the blades in terms of forgiveness, but you gave up some distance and feel. I am very happy with the AP2s.   They have the great feel of forged irons, and are certainly more forgiving than the older blades.  I didn't try AP1s because I figure these may be the last irons I'll buy and I wanted to get back to forged clubs.  They simply feel so much better when you hit the ball somewhere near properly. 

  8. Lou G

    Lou G
    San Diego, CA

    Proctor Ford said:

    once someone gets good enough with the ap1s to be able to hit them consistently well, then they can move to the ap2s, a much more workable club than the ap1. with the ap1s, you sacrifice workability for forgiveness, while with the ap2s you sacrifice forgiveness for workability. The ap1s improve your game so you can get to the ap2s which are more of a players iron.

    OK, folks, I took the plunge today to see if I will buy a complete set of AP1s (or at least the 6-P). There was a set in the iron bin with R300 shafts (but missing an 8 iron) so I picked up the 9 and PW for $29 each(since they have the same loft, length and lie angle as my Eye 2 8 and 9 irons) and had a free lie angle adjustment (the PW was 1* flat and the 9 iron was right on). I was probably hitting close to 130 at the range with the 9 iron and about 115 with the PW. I found them easy to hit a draw with but not so easy to fade. They also seemed to have a softer feel vs my Eye 2s (the latter have TT Lite XL shafts). Next step is a little bit of a side-by-side vs the Eye 2s at the park and then some golf next Friday.
  9. Lou G

    Lou G
    San Diego, CA

    Lou G said:

    once someone gets good enough with the ap1s to be able to hit them consistently well, then they can move to the ap2s, a much more workable club than the ap1. with the ap1s, you sacrifice workability for forgiveness, while with the ap2s you sacrifice forgiveness for workability. The ap1s improve your game so you can get to the ap2s which are more of a players iron.

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